Are The Art Hustle's Original Art cards, original art?

With the pending release of The Art Hustle series 3 I pose the question to the Trampt faithful whether or not the original art cards included in the series (blank cards onto which artists in the series have done original works of art which are then slipped randomly into packs of cards) should be allowed as additions to the Trampt library under the "Original Art" tag. 

I believe they should. They are exactly that and the simple fact that they are included in a wax package mixed in with other misc. cards in no way makes them any less of an object of art. 

Thoughts?

Conversation Stats

  • 100% Approval
  • 3 Upvotes
  • 0 Downvotes
  • 989 Views
  • 14 All Ups
  • 0 All Downs
  • 5 Members
  • 6 Replies
  • 53 Comments

External Links

Add Your Reply

Reply & Comment Etiquette

You are not currently signed in. Sign in now.

Once signed in, Trampt users can vote, comment and post replies if they have unlocked the required badges by earning reputation points. As a member of Trampt, you can also manage your collection, help us maintain the library, earn reputation & badges, and more.

Joining is free and you can do it now in minutes!

Create an Account

6 Replies

since the originals can vary from scribbles to masterpieces, as long as anything that's a 1/1 should qualify. Do con sketches count? then these definitely do. 

Valleydweller-trampt-1496f

valleyDweller

  • Artist

over 7 years ago · Comment ·

Keegan-trampt-1698f

keegan a con sketches definitely don't count, because those aren't really a good representation of the artists work and weren't purchased. These would be different than sketches. over 7 years ago

Toypinionated-trampt-1558f

ToyPinionated v I really don't understand that reasoning for why a con sketch wouldn't count. I don't know what having been purchased has to do with anything. I understand a Munny doodle not counting but a sketch in a sketch pad, why not? Art by an artist's hand is absolutely representative of the artist. They did it! It may not be on the same quality level as a painting they worked on for 60 hours but it is still their art. over 7 years ago

Toypinionated-trampt-1558f

ToyPinionated v For example, what really is the difference between a sketch in a sketch book you gathered at SDCC vs a drawing you commissioned by that same artist? Only the money changing hands. The Looper sketch I have by Gary Ham was drawn at a con and I didn't pay for it but I don't see why that doesn't count as a piece of his art. over 7 years ago

Benpierce25-trampt-399f

benpierce25 v Matt, you may cherish that Gary's Wooper is awesome in that he did it in 5 minutes and did it well. But the question is, would the artist who drew that consider it a piece of art. If I had to say, I'd say no, as it is just a simple fulfillment of a fan's request to own a small sample of the artist's talent.(tbc) over 7 years ago

Benpierce25-trampt-399f

benpierce25 v (tbc)..Art is in the eye of the beholder, but putting something that Gary did in 5 minutes compared to 5 hours and giving it the same name is not giving respect to the 5 hour piece if they are both being called art. it's a slippery slope and is Keegan's call on how he runs his site. over 7 years ago

Keegan-trampt-1698f

keegan a We had a discussion about this before. My main feeling boiled down to would an artist put it on their own site portfolio? An artist who paints, or customizes ... would they include a pencil sketch for a friend or a doodled munny in their own portfolio on their site? If not than it probably doesn't belong in the library. over 7 years ago

Keegan-trampt-1698f

keegan a I'm still on the fence about the art hustle cards though, but I do feel con sketches, just like doodled toys don't really belong in the site. Can you imagine scrolling through 1000's of white sketched munnys from various cons? *shudders* over 7 years ago

Toypinionated-trampt-1558f

ToyPinionated v So then it's time? Art is defined by the length of time it took to create? Talk about a slippery slope! Where is the field when entering an item that asks the duration of production? That's a pretty thin definition of what art is. over 7 years ago

Benpierce25-trampt-399f

benpierce25 v I vote we run the beta test on Toypinionated and see how it goes over. over 7 years ago

Toypinionated-trampt-1558f

ToyPinionated v Beta test of what? What are you talking about? over 7 years ago

Keegan-trampt-1698f

keegan a yeah, I'm confused by that as well over 7 years ago

Keegan-trampt-1698f

keegan a I assume he means try putting in some AH cards and see how it goes which I'm interested in trying. Both original pieces and the printed cards. My only concern would be getting nice images of them all for each series. Thoughts? over 7 years ago

Toypinionated-trampt-1558f

ToyPinionated v I'm not even suggesting putting in the regular cards, just the originals. I do see both sides of it, I really do, I just think (and I'm making an assumption as to the purpose of a site LIKE this one, so I apologize in advance) that on a site that is home to rabid collectors and fans, I would think it invaluable to have any scrap of work an artist has done cataloged and available to see. over 7 years ago

Keegan-trampt-1698f

keegan a I still stand by original statement and say that any piece or work an artists would take 'pride' in, like being part of the AH series should be included. A sketch in a notebook for a friend/fan .... probably not. over 7 years ago

Toypinionated-trampt-1558f

ToyPinionated v See my other comments :-) over 7 years ago

As an artist I believe that a sketch is definetly original art, but I do not consider a doodle has original piece of art, to me doodle is a small drawing you make extremely quikly and that you give away for free it's like a signature. I do take 'pride" on my Sketches and would never give them away for free, but when I doodle I don't take myself seriously, and I am glad to give them away for free. 

over 7 years ago · Comment ·

Toypinionated-trampt-1558f

ToyPinionated v Thank you for providing your perspective! over 7 years ago

Quailstudio-trampt-1760f

QuailStudio v you are welcome Matthew, I hope it helps (^__^) over 7 years ago

Toypinionated-trampt-1558f

ToyPinionated v Totally does! It's one thing for us collectors to argue about it from our perspective but it's really great to hear from a working artist as well. over 7 years ago

Quailstudio-trampt-1760f

QuailStudio v well just wanted to bring my little opinion to this debate, of course it's only my personal point of view and some other Artist might tell you differently I guess. over 7 years ago

I think it is one of those slippery slopes. I think that a CON sketch is artistic but is not a piece of art given that it is only a shell of what the artist is capable. I think it is a slippery slope in that if you add a single sketch by someone, someone else will do so, and you just dilute the library and the content of the site. If we have AH3, why don't we have AH2/AH1/Suckseries, or the 10 series of Topps Star Wars cards with artist sketches paintings. Are we too good for Topps since they are not in our "scene" minus them being art. Nathan Hamill contributes to the Star Wars cards, do we let him in since he is in our scene but ignore theo ther artists that have no representation in the toy scene? At the end of the day it comes down to Keegan (and whomever) putting their foot down and drawing a line on where the slippery slope ends on how they preserve Trampt and wish for it to function. If it were me, I'd limit what is in the art or 1/1 section of the library to what appears in galleries/shows/events.

over 7 years ago · Comment ·

Toypinionated-trampt-1558f

ToyPinionated v I think AH 1 and 2 SHOULD be in. The original art cards, anyway . But I think you're limiting it too far if you're saying something has to have been in a gallery or show or event (which, by the way, a sketch from SDCC or DCON would then qualify having been at an event). By those limits no commissions would be included and I really don't think that's okay. over 7 years ago

Toypinionated-trampt-1558f

ToyPinionated v 1/1 art is 1/1 art and I really don't see any difference between something an artist friend does for you vs something you paid a crap-ton for at a gallery. over 7 years ago

Toypinionated-trampt-1558f

ToyPinionated v It's also dangerous to say "that it is only a shell of what the artist is capable." Couldn't that be said, as judgement, about every piece an artist does that you don't like? Oh that could have been so much better. What matters is the intent. It's art. No, a sketch isn't the same as a long involved painting, but it isn't supposed to, is it? over 7 years ago

Benpierce25-trampt-399f

benpierce25 v then where does the slippery slope end? what would your ruling be on artist cards that are included in custom blind box series be? I think it goes back to a 5 minute vs a 5 hour being called art vilifies one and admonishes the other. If keegan wanted to make a fan art section and let people go nuts, it may sooth some of this grey area. over 7 years ago

Benpierce25-trampt-399f

benpierce25 v I think the biggest thing comes down to that if everyone posted a sketch they got, it clutters the site and dilutes it. Say we have Huck Gee, he goes to a signing, 10,000 people get a sketch and 10,000 people upload their sketch all being approximately being the same. Would you like to wade through that in order to look at a figure? over 7 years ago

Benpierce25-trampt-399f

benpierce25 v And if Keegan allows sketches but only allows those that are different, how do you choose whose to keep as the token sketch. The part you may not know Matt is that from the database side, it would be a nightmare to allow sketches, each having their own family/folder. Like if you create a folder for your sketch when you met Gary Ham on the street or at a cafe or in the bathroom, each one would be a unique instance. over 7 years ago

Toypinionated-trampt-1558f

ToyPinionated v First off, those 10,000 people aren't going to add their sketches. Hasn't happened yet so to use that as an argument against something is stretching it more than a bit. And if an art card that came in a blind box was an original piece of art (like often comes with APs) then why not? I genuinely see no difference between that and a piece hanging in a gallery. Size doesn't mean anything (teehee). over 7 years ago

Toypinionated-trampt-1558f

ToyPinionated v And if you don't like those then I guess we shouldn't allow prints that come with releases either such as those that Nathan Hamill has released with his various figures. And what about the mini prints that came with the original SDCC release of the Bunny Go Ride figure? To worry about cluttering the library up seems a strange concern. You generally only see what you search for anyway. over 7 years ago

Toypinionated-trampt-1558f

ToyPinionated v Do you think there are many people who click Library then spend the next 27 hours clicking through each page? No, they search for the artist of the piece they have, and then they go on to the next. Sure there is some browsing but even then over 7 years ago

Toypinionated-trampt-1558f

ToyPinionated v I'd bet a good chunk of it is searches for Kozik (or whatever) and in that case I would LOVE to see everything possible that he's done. It is a Library after all and that's what Libraries are. Not a curated museum. over 7 years ago

Benpierce25-trampt-399f

benpierce25 v Actually, people have tried to add sketches in the past and they get taken down since that is one of the No-no's of trampt "Thou shalt not upload sketches or sketched figures". Prints are produced which makes them valid. I don't see nathan sitting at a table with a stencil and paint doing them. They are made, conceived, and provided at an event, whether it be a CON or TAG for Nathan's items. over 7 years ago

Benpierce25-trampt-399f

benpierce25 v If keegan wants to add a sketch tab for each artist, then let's hoot the moon. over 7 years ago

Toypinionated-trampt-1558f

ToyPinionated v Ok, so lets go at it this way then. What is a sketch? How do YOU specifically define it? Is it something done with a pencil only? Would you then not allow any work by PodgyPanda in here? Or is it size? Define this slippery slope for me. over 7 years ago

Benpierce25-trampt-399f

benpierce25 v I guess I will answer in order posed: To me a sketch can be done in pen/pencil, as an item of appreciation to a fan for their support. complexity is not a factor. But art is what is for sale/profit, a sketch is to make you feel warm, fuzzy, special, and to get off their back. It is a token of their appreciation, which would not have value, and not first a gallery definition of art. over 7 years ago

Benpierce25-trampt-399f

benpierce25 v The slippery slope is: AH series, suck series, and even Topps Star Wars if we venture there just has too many random people. To me, if it is Nathan or someone in our community, kudos, but items for Star wars cards are art but these folks have no involvement and would likely only have 1 item to their unverified portfolio. over 7 years ago

Benpierce25-trampt-399f

benpierce25 v everyone deserves notoriety for their contribution to the scene, and thus they have been given a trading card (or have a following of fans) since one does not necessarily imply the other. But if I were an artist, I would only want to see what I put my whole ass in to and not just a fraction of it. over 7 years ago

Toypinionated-trampt-1558f

ToyPinionated v wow, that is a pretty dangerous definition. I guess you're telling all the graffiti writers that what they do isn't art then either since they can't sell it and it isn't for profit? I mean, I agree but only because i'm not a fan of graffiti but I don't think it has anything to do with the fact that it is free art. And that's also a pretty cynical and condescending look at what a sketch is or what it's purpose is. over 7 years ago

Toypinionated-trampt-1558f

ToyPinionated v So lets take the sketches done by the various artists during the last Day With Toy Break. Those were, by any real definition, sketches but they were done to raise donations. Do those count to you? Do those qualify as art? See, I think the only slippery slope here is your own. You're limiting what art is like crazy and for no useful purpose. over 7 years ago

Toypinionated-trampt-1558f

ToyPinionated v ok over 7 years ago

Benpierce25-trampt-399f

benpierce25 v That's like asking if working at a soup kitchen can be counted as write off on your W2 since you donated your time, and your time is worth money. They did it out of the goodness of their heart to help someone, which points back around to what I view the definition of a sketch to be. Just because you have your own toypinion doesn't give you grounds to deride mine (in your last sentence). over 7 years ago

Keegan-trampt-1698f

keegan a Graffiti is art, but it can't be collected so it's not here. There are plenty of pieces of original art on the site done in pencil, and some are sketches of painting for a show ... the key difference is those were sold at the same show. There are no hard and fast rules except ... can it be physically 'obtained', and would the artist generally be proud to show that piece as their 'work'. over 7 years ago

Toypinionated-trampt-1558f

ToyPinionated v Perhaps re-read that sentence. You're limiting something like crazy. not you are crazy. And I don't see a useful purpose to limit it to that degree. That's a simple disagreement. over 7 years ago

Toypinionated-trampt-1558f

ToyPinionated v Keegan, i wasn't suggesting graffiti should be here. I'm simply using that as a counter example to why the cost of something is irrelevant to whether or not it is art. No, photographs of graffiti shouldn't be here :-) over 7 years ago

Sawdustbear-trampt-613f

sawdustbear v I think y'all are working on defining the wrong term here - the word "art" isn't going to end up being defined conclusively on this site or any other. What's more important is that each artist has a "portfolio" on the site - it's supposed to be the best of their work. Not a comprehensive body of work, just the portfolio-worthy ones. over 7 years ago

Sawdustbear-trampt-613f

sawdustbear v I'm fine with limiting the scope of an artist portfolio to their own releases, as well as gallery and event releases. I also like the idea of having a "sketches" area that can be a lot more comprehensive. over 7 years ago

Toypinionated-trampt-1558f

ToyPinionated v I think the real problem is that I am coming at this from a different perspective than it seems like everyone else. I am seeing the term Library used and then think this should act as a Library, like the title suggests. You're all seeing this as a site made up of a bunch of portfolios. Very, very different beasts. over 7 years ago

Toypinionated-trampt-1558f

ToyPinionated v And if it's supposed to be a site of portfolios where only the work artists are most proud of has a place, then the users shouldn't be allowed to add things. It may not be something you wanted added. over 7 years ago

Webecomemonsters-trampt-539f

webecomemonsters v I dont see it as a library, myself. Libraries shouldnt really police themselves all that much on content. This site to me is more like a living encyclopedia of a tiny subset of 'art toys' - and this issue comes up al lthe time since nobody can define art toy any better than anyone can define art. over 7 years ago

Let me also add that I actually believe the fact that they are delivered in this manor makes them all the more incredible. The method of delivery is an art in and of itself, I think. The mystery of it. The chance. Each pack is a mini art show though you don't know whose it is. I love the idea. 

over 7 years ago · Comment ·

Oh and just to get some clarification on the "a sketch doesn't count because it wasn't paid for" idea, there are an aweful lot of customs (for shows or otherwise) that go unsold. Do those not count either? I'm looking at you, artists or dabblers who have things sitting in your Storenvy page waiting for buyers. Lay out the difference in that for me. 

Matthew_hisey-trampt-2904f

Matthew Hisey

  • Artist

over 7 years ago · Comment ·

Keegan-trampt-1698f

keegan a I stand by this ... do you disagree? My main feeling boiled down to would an artist put it on their own site portfolio? An artist who paints, or customizes ... would they include a pencil sketch for a friend or a doodled munny in their own portfolio on their site? If not than it probably doesn't belong in the library. over 7 years ago

Toypinionated-trampt-1558f

ToyPinionated v I think where I get hung up on this is the terminology this site uses. You are conflating a library with a portfolio. If it is a library than it should have everything possible an artist has done. Now, the artists' portfolio typically only houses their most ideal examples of their work. Two very, very different things but this site combines them in a way that is making this discussion much more difficult. over 7 years ago

Toypinionated-trampt-1558f

ToyPinionated v Coming at it from the portfolio side, I completely understand where you're coming from with that justification. No, were the artist going around shopping for a job with their portfolio under-arm, they would probably not have practice sketches or whatever in there. But a library would. I library doesn't take into account the artists desires but the publics instead. over 7 years ago

Toypinionated-trampt-1558f

ToyPinionated v You're coming at this from the perspective that this is a site made up of a collection of portfolios. I'm coming at this discussion from the perspective of a collector who wants to walk into a library and see everything there is to see, whether it's available to me or not. It's still of value. over 7 years ago

So, are these printed cards or original sketches, drawings, paintings, etc sold in a wax pack? I think we had sucklord cards in here a while back but dropped them.

I should probably go read up a bit about the series first. :)

over 7 years ago · Comment ·

Toypinionated-trampt-1558f

ToyPinionated v its a mix. The bulk of the cards you'll get in the packs are just like baseball cards but of artists, pictures of 3D work maybe or what amount to prints with the artist's info and art info on the back. Just like a baseball card. But there are also original works of art mixed throughout by the artists included in the series. over 7 years ago

Toypinionated-trampt-1558f

ToyPinionated v Each of them are given X number of blank cards and the artists use those as mini canvases to do whatever they want on. May be sketches. May be paintings. May be thin sculpture even. Then those cards get mixed into the packs randomly. over 7 years ago

Promote your new release, event & more to 29,000+ people each month.

Unlimited impressions starting at a rate of .38¢ per 1,000.

You Need To Sign In For That
Remember Me

Don't have an account? Create an account now.